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Talk:Simon Belmont
1667? There's no way Simon could have been born in 1667 if he was to be 22 years old by the events of the first Castlevania game. If that game takes place sometime in 1691, and he was supposed to be 22 (or 23 by Judgment), he would have to have been born between the years 1668-1669, with 1668 being the earliest possible year only if he was 22 going on 23 in the year 1691. --Brahman 18:10, 29 May 2009 (UTC) *has iga ever given us a defined age for him? trevor gets one (19 in CV3, 22 in CoD), so do juste and richter and julius, but chris and simon are enigmae afaik. and regardless of whether people adore or despise judgment, it deliberately straddles the AU and core-timeline fence, and it pulls characters from all over the place in their lives because aeon is a big au fic fanboy or something. it is not chockablock with gospel truths in mainline canon (it tanked, only ~4000 units sold in japan; i doubt iga will make it mainline) and is not supposed to be srsbzns. if it were trevor would not be acting like captain N simon. XD (they could have cashed in on nostalgia by making simon the egotist, man. and frankly given the way he DRESSES he looks like more the type. trev just looks like he got lost in lulu's closet and its contents attacked him.) tl;dr blah blah blah - do we ever get a concrete age for the guy? anyone? bueller? i've been hunting and i cannot find one. --castlevaniaburd, having CACHE PROBLEMS and unable to sign in :E the source I'm using for Simon's age is the Order of Ecclesia strategy guide's promo for Judgment. now, I know that this isn't the greatest source, but i am guessing that they didn't pull this number out of a hat. i can only assume that this information came from somewhere. it's the only place i know of that lists his age (other than International Track & Field...) i do have the Japanese Judgment strategy guide though, i'll have to check it to see if it has any numbers on it that might be an age. also, Judgment takes place one year after the original Castlevania game, not immediately after it. --Reinhart77 23:22, 10 June 2009 (UTC) :Sorry for the late reply, I just don't check here very often. Anyway, I completely get what you're saying, and if it's what the Strategy Guide/sourcebook says, then I suppose that's what it says. Maybe someone over at Konami dropped the ball when it comes to the math, then, as if he was born in 1667 there's no way he would have been 22 by 1691 (youngest he could have been was 23 going on 24), but maybe I'm just a stickler for minor details. --Brahman 17:57, 11 June 2009 (UTC) ack, that would be my bad math, i think. anyways, i adjusted it to a more plausible year. dang it, I wasn't able to find anything in the Judgment strategy guide that looked like ages or a timeline. oh well.--Reinhart77 22:24, 11 June 2009 (UTC) Gallery I do not think to exhibit the collage in the gallery.--Kiyuhito 17:29, November 11, 2010 (UTC) I removed this from the gallery.--Kiyuhito 19:00, November 11, 2010 (UTC) Castlevania: Stairs? (Newgrounds) Simon should have used the stairs on this level!-- 07:01, April 7, 2012 (UTC) Splitting page This may be a very controversial decesion, but I think we should split up this page into several different pages just like we recently did with Dracula. There is evidence (from IGA himself) that the original Castlevania is the one that happens in his timeline and Super Castlevania IV, Akumajo Dracula X68000 etc., are alternate continuity. I propose that we make seperate pages for each incarnation of Simon. Also, something that may seem trivial but that I would like to adress: several sources that deal with IGA's timeline use Simon's Chronicles artwork as his canon appearance. Because this artwork was created for the remake, I personally don't consider it to be representative for the original game. Therefore, although the original NES game is the one that should be treated as legimate, I think we should use his look from Chronicles as his canon appearance. --Nagumo baby (talk) 16:03, November 6, 2012 (UTC) :CV1, VK, SCV4 and X68K are almost the same, I am not interested in division of the page. Probably, it is good to have those pages, since HC and CV2 are different things. I am opposed to the opinion on the basis of chronicle Simon artwork. I respect an origin. The Greatest Five of PoR is original Simon. The pixel art of Simon of HD is original Simon. Probably, HD artwork is negligent recycling. Probably, Simon was a near appearance origin, when a new art was drawn.--Kiyuhito (talk) 01:22, November 7, 2012 (UTC) :But, When "game play" is taken into consideration, there may be page division. Technique and inventory are different by the game.--Kiyuhito (talk) 02:00, November 7, 2012 (UTC) We could split the pages for both story and gameplay reasons. I think it's important to make the distinction, because most fans believe VK, SCIV, etc. are canon as "remakes", which is not true. It's true these pages would roughly all be the same. Another possibility is to remove all the content that deals with VK, SC4, X68K. Though I don't prefer that solution. Regarding artwork, I make a distinction between artwork and sprites. For example, in Symphony of the Night, Richter's sprite is the one from Rondo but his artwork is completely different. I think IGA envisions Simon to look like his Chronicles artwork despite using his sprite from CV1. I think it's imporant to follow IGA's intent. --Nagumo baby (talk) 13:50, November 7, 2012 (UTC) ::I'd say just split the gameplay info into subpage like character/HOS. CV1 SCV4 X68k/Chronicle basically share the same story, there is no need to separate them. --'TX55TALK'' 15:48, November 7, 2012 (UTC) :On a Wiki point of view, I don't know if it is really revelant to have 4 or 5 Simon Belmont pages, considering his story and role in all these games are almost the same. :Maybe adding new sections and working on a division in the article may be a good thing to do (having '''In XYZ game ; In ABC game) and putting all the information in the right section. :Maybe doing pages like Simon Belmont/Judgment or Simon Belmont/Harmony of Despair may do it on another hand (but these games are not canon, so maybe not). :As for the artwork, I'd chose one from Chronicles (File:LeonRed.jpg - it is certainely the most fitting). -Chernabogue (talk) 14:00, November 7, 2012 (UTC) :::One advantage of having seperate Simon pages (at least for having one for CV1 and X68K) is that there is no conflict about which pictures to use. The profile picture constantly changes between blonde Simon from X68K and Simon's canonical Chronicles artwork. :::I was also thinking to keep all these seperate Simon pages brief so that they are not a chore to read while still being as informative as possible. I made an example in my talk page archive (http://castlevania.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:Nagumo_baby/Archive_3). :::What also may be important is to apply clear structure to the wiki. For example, we have seperate pages for normal Simon and LoS Simon because they are from two seperate continuities. Putting all these different incarnations of Simon into one page is confusing and there is no real reason for it. --Nagumo baby (talk) 14:35, November 7, 2012 (UTC) :Applying a clear structure is a good idea. I like your idea: Minimum information, one little picture, small articles, a bit of trivia/more information; so the readers won't get lost. A Character Infobox wouldn't be needed. The Dab1 template (disambiguation) shold be used at the beginning of such articles however. -Chernabogue (talk) 14:39, November 7, 2012 (UTC) :::I would like to begin with splitting the pages. Please let me know if anyone wants to discuss this matter further before I begin. --Nagumo baby (talk) 20:43, November 21, 2012 (UTC) ::::I'm okay. Go for it. If you need help or need one/more templates, don't gesitate to ask me. ;) -Chernabogue (talk) 20:47, November 21, 2012 (UTC) :::::Sorry for missing the discussion. If they are basically the same character in minor continuities, why don't we use subpages? --'TX55TALK'' 01:30, November 23, 2012 (UTC) ::::::I agree with TX55.--Kiyuhito (talk) 07:56, November 23, 2012 (UTC) :::::::I'm ok with that, but what is the advantage over just seperating them completely? If we put a disambiguation link and a "see also" section that directs to the other Simon pages in the article the result would be exactly the same. We didn't make a sub-page for LoS Simon either so what would make this situation different? Making them sub-pages also suggests they have some relation to "IGA Simon" continuity-wise, and I wanted to make these seperate pages in order to make clear that there isn't any connenction (as far as IGA is concerned at least). --Nagumo baby (talk) 15:02, November 23, 2012 (UTC) :Though they are not related to IGA's continuity, they are '''still the same Simon Belmont from the original series. That's why they should be in the subpages rather than sole pages since they are all the same character - original Simon Belmont. :In addition, in my opinion, perhaps those pages should be merged together, unless we can add some play information (like Alucard/Harmony_of_Despair) in each page. Simon (HC) could be a good start, since his sub weaponry are unique to other versions. --'TX55TALK'' 16:30, November 23, 2012 (UTC) ::It'd be confusing. We should either keep "Simon Belmont/Game XYZ" or "Simon Belmont (Game XYZ)" but not both at the same time. -Chernabogue (talk) 18:09, November 23, 2012 (UTC) :No, it is simple. :"Character/Game XYZ" for same characters :and :"Character (Game, fiction or continuity)" for a whole different characters. :So it would be: ::Simon Belmont :::Simon Belmont/Vampire Killer :::Simon Belmont/Haunted Castle :::Simon Belmont/X68k ::Simon Belmont III ::Simon Belmont (Lords of Shadow) :--'''TX55TALK 00:55, November 24, 2012 (UTC) ::The thing is though, Simon from Vampire Killer, SCIV, and X68K are completely different characters as well because these games take place in their own continuity. Simon from Judgment and Harmony of Despair on the other hand are both the same Simon from the IGA continuity so having sub-pages for them is fine. --Nagumo baby (talk) 12:46, November 24, 2012 (UTC) :::Well, they are actually micro continuities, which means they are still the original Simon Belmont though they surely not in IGA's continuity. Anyway, such thing does easily confuse people, I know because I dealt with things like this before. --'TX55TALK'' 15:26, November 24, 2012 (UTC) ::::It's true that these are very minor continuities but I don't understand why that means all these Simons should be treated as the same character. If anything, I think that would be confusing. --Nagumo baby (talk) 16:05, November 24, 2012 (UTC) :I agree with Nagumo. A good use of the different disambig/dab templates and information on the Simon disambiguation page should help. -Chernabogue (talk) 16:18, November 24, 2012 (UTC) Profile picture. Although the original Castlevania is the version of Simon's story that happend in the IGA continuity, his Chronicles artwork is used to represent him on various offical timelines, the Harmony of Despair OST etc. Therefore, I think we should treat that artwork as his "offical" appearance in the IGA timeline and use it as his profile picture. --Nagumo baby (talk) 12:22, December 21, 2012 (UTC) :I will repeat the same utterance as November 7, 2012. But, If it is an intention of Admin, I will raise a white flag reluctantly.--Kiyuhito (talk) 12:30, December 21, 2012 (UTC) ::If we are going to change the main pic, at least we should use his most reconcilable images, especial from early series. --'''TX55TALK 14:42, December 21, 2012 (UTC) :Well, I'm fine with a picture from his original appearance. But I think images from Vampire Killer, Haunted Castle, SCIV, and AK68K should not be used in this article. I think his Chronicles artwork would make the most sense though because it reflects IGA's intentions best. Similarly, I think the pages for Trevor and Richter should also use the Kojima artwork as profile pictures. Since these characters are from IGA's continuity, I think we should adhere to his view on the characters. --Nagumo baby (talk) 15:17, December 21, 2012 (UTC) ::I think both Richter and Trevor's current images should be okay, and they are from the original games, plus those games are still in IGA's continuity. --'TX55TALK'' 00:19, December 22, 2012 (UTC) :::What if we use two images at once: his original artwork from the NES cover and his Chronicles artwork? We could put a selectable tab in the infobox that you can click on if you want to see either of the two images. I'm currently trying to figure out how to make it work on this wiki. --Nagumo baby (talk) 10:26, December 22, 2012 (UTC) :I'd vote for one picture only and for Chronicles Simon. -Chernabogue (talk) 10:44, December 22, 2012 (UTC) ::Admittedly, that is what I would like as well. so that option also gets my vote. --Nagumo baby (talk) 16:16, December 22, 2012 (UTC) :I'd still vote for the ''CV2'' version of Simon. :As for Nagumo's suggestion, if we are going to use two images as main pics, the template should be add a new parameter based on . (Though I don't know if this works or not.) --'''TX55TALK 16:59, December 22, 2012 (UTC) :I'll put the two pictures. Shouldn't be a problem! ;) -Chernabogue (talk) 09:41, December 23, 2012 (UTC) ::Good Job!! Nice work!! (Double Thumbs Up) --'TX55TALK'' 16:18, December 23, 2012 (UTC) :::Nice work.--Kiyuhito (talk) 11:48, December 24, 2012 (UTC) Gallery I think that I should summarize all cameo game artworks at one place (Simon Belmont/Gallery). Division brings about unnecessary confusion.--Kiyuhito (talk) 09:13, December 22, 2012 (UTC) :Agreed here, and we can use several sections to separate different Simons. -Chernabogue (talk) 10:44, December 22, 2012 (UTC) :Ok, I'll take care of it. --Nagumo baby (talk) 16:16, December 22, 2012 (UTC) I performed it.--Kiyuhito (talk) 12:59, August 12, 2013 (UTC) Age Since we don't know Simon's birthday, his age at the time of Simon's Quest is conjecture. Also, I believe "1692: Judgment" is not established in the game at all. --Nagumo baby (talk) 12:50, December 26, 2012 (UTC) Judgment Simon's age is 23. Source from BradyGames Order of Ecclesia Official Strategy Guide bonus content Judgment 11 character bios. If required, I can upload this scan.--Kiyuhito (talk) 13:29, December 26, 2012 (UTC) And, Judgment Simon came six years before CV2. Castlevania Judgment (Simon Belmont Story True Ending).--Kiyuhito (talk) 13:56, December 26, 2012 (UTC) Ok, I'll change it. --Nagumo baby (talk) 19:20, December 26, 2012 (UTC) Relatives I think Linda Entwistle and Mina should not be listed as relatives since they are from alternate continuities. Pierre Belmont is a character from the Goemon series and is not related to Simon from the Castlevania series. That's why I removed them. --Nagumo baby (talk) 19:20, December 26, 2012 (UTC) :I know, but I restored them because they are not related to other version of Simon Belmont. They are still somehow connect to Simon but not cannon to IGA continuity. --'''TX55TALK 02:44, December 27, 2012 (UTC) :I removed Pierre Belmont. He has his own article, so I think mentioning in the article that he is the grandfather of Simon should be sufficient. --Nagumo baby (talk) 11:01, December 27, 2012 (UTC) Appearance section. The part that deals with how Simon controls in Castlevania I and II, should we keep it in the article? I want to make it look a little better, but it may be a bit unneccessary since essentially the same thing is covered in the respective game/inventory pages. --Nagumo baby (talk) 10:12, December 27, 2012 (UTC) Hair color I thought that the Japanese instruction manual Simon's hair color was reddish-brown. But this is individual subjectivity.--Kiyuhito (talk) 01:15, February 5, 2013 (UTC) I some images it's a bit ambiguous but you can definitely tell he has red hair. There is also this image. I don't know where it's from but apperently it's offical artwork. --Nagumo baby (talk) 13:27, February 5, 2013 (UTC) In this art, hair color is visible to yellowish brown.--Kiyuhito (talk) 13:45, February 5, 2013 (UTC) Igarashi explained with the Japanese magazine. http://2ch.jpn21.net/Imgboard/01/data/img20101109025037.jpg *悪魔城年代記 悪魔城ドラキュラより 「コンセプトは赤と黒。赤にした理由は、シモンの髪の毛の色が"ドラキュラ2"のときが赤だったため。当初はマッチョにしなくていいと小島さんに指定したのですが、なぜかマッチョに……。(IGA)」 --Kiyuhito (talk) 13:53, February 5, 2013 (UTC) :Ok, I'll change it. So because Simon's armor in Dracula II was red, IGA requested that his hair should also be red in Chronicles? --Nagumo baby (talk) 14:11, February 5, 2013 (UTC) ::Igarashi says "Concept is red and black. red reason, Dracula II Simon's hair color was red. I pointed Please don't make (Simon) macho to Kojima. But, (Simon) became macho without knowing why". Probably he mixed up hair color and armor's color.--Kiyuhito (talk) 03:24, February 6, 2013 (UTC) By the way, with "red" I mean ginger red hair, not actual red hair. I hope there's no confusion over that. --Nagumo baby (talk) 14:13, February 5, 2013 (UTC) Leonard Cohen Leonard Cohen died a couple months ago. I found out that Leonard Cohen lived on a street called Belmont in Montreal, and he had a record producer named John Simon. I think Simon Belmont was an homage to Leonard Cohen. and others why I think Leonard Cohen has something to do with this, well, Freddy Krueger wore a Cohen-esque fedora in Nightmare On Elm Street which was a horror movie, and maybe thats why Leonard Cohen references could be found in horror video games like Castlevania. --Suzanne Supremo (talk) 18:48, January 2, 2017 (UTC)